To use them or not to use them.  That is my question.  Opinions?

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
- Life on the Mississippi

You should use them as it keeps the bit from flopping around in your horse's mouth.  without them, the tops of the cheeks want to be level with the bottoms.  They also help to keep you from pulling the bit thru your horse's mouth
 
If you dont want to use the keepers, its OK, but if you have the keepers use them.  Or, goto a half cheek snaffle.  or a D-ring, or eggbitt, or loose ring, or... or... or... 

If Im not here, Im off driving my Ural Patrol!

Double Barrel


You should use them as it keeps the bit from flopping around in your horse's mouth.  without them, the tops of the cheeks want to be level with the bottoms.  They also help to keep you from pulling the bit thru your horse's mouth

aren't the "full cheek" parts of the full cheek snaffle what keeps it from going through the horse's mouth?  I think if this bit went through his mouth a vet would need to be involved.
 
 
I've heard so many different opinions about keepers, I'm curious to know what people here think.  One of my "other" horse boards (that I believe to be populated by people who only know enough to be dangerous) had someone suggest keepers are necessary to keep the bit from going up the horse's nose...

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
- Life on the Mississippi

Keepers should always be used with a full cheek bit and serve two purposes.  The first is to keep the bit fixed in the correct position.  The second is a safety factor.....cheeks in keepers are far less likely to get caught up on things.  It would be very difficult to pull a fc bit through a horses mouth but I have seen lots of damage caused by horses getting their bit (without keepers) caught up on something.

keepers are necessary to keep the bit from going up the horse's nose...

That DID give me a little chuckle... :)

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Okay, I think as the conversation went on...you lost me.  LOL Which isn't a difficult feat, so don't go feeling too smug.  So, before anyone tries to explain, especially without pictures, answer a few questions:
 
- is this bit generally used in english riding? 
 
- is this the bit that has the metal pieces perpendicular to the mouthpiece that are not used as shanks?
 
- if the pieces perpendicular to the mouthpiece do not keep the bit correctly in place, why are they there?
 
- and, since I ride western and would only ever, on occasion, use an o-ring snaffle, knowing what you are talking about is or isn't relevant for me in life's greater scheme?
 
So, any volunteers on explaining this?

 
that's a full cheek snaffle.  They are used in english riding. the cheek pieces are mostly there to keep the bit from going through the horses mouth, they also add pressure to the outside of the mouth when turning.  They also don't pinch the sides of the mouth as much as a loose ring snaffle can. 
Keepers are little leather straps the attach at the top of the cheek pieces and to the bridle and hold the bit steady in the horse's mouth... like this:
 
And
 
 
IMO, learn about anything and everything you can.  You never know when a "useless" factoid could come in handy. 
 

 

CrookedPostQH


Okay, I think as the conversation went on...you lost me.  LOL Which isn't a difficult feat, so don't go feeling too smug.  So, before anyone tries to explain, especially without pictures, answer a few questions:

- is this bit generally used in english riding? 

- is this the bit that has the metal pieces perpendicular to the mouthpiece that are not used as shanks?

- if the pieces perpendicular to the mouthpiece do not keep the bit correctly in place, why are they there?

- and, since I ride western and would only ever, on occasion, use an o-ring snaffle, knowing what you are talking about is or isn't relevant for me in life's greater scheme?

So, any volunteers on explaining this?

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
- Life on the Mississippi

theoldgreymare


The second is a safety factor.....cheeks in keepers are far less likely to get caught up on things.  It would be very difficult to pull a fc bit through a horses mouth but I have seen lots of damage caused by horses getting their bit (without keepers) caught up on something.

I'm not doubting you at all, but can you give me an example of something they got caught up on?  I've heard of this before and I just can't imagine what we would be so close to that it could get caught...I've never spoken to anyone who's actually seen it in person, it's always happened to "a friend of a friend of my second cousin's great aunt"... so if you have an anecdote I would LOVE to hear/read it.  Thanks!

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
- Life on the Mississippi

The pics helped.  Its the bit I thought you were talking about, but the "keepers" are not.  I was confused in my assumption that you were calling foam/rubber disks placed at the edge of a mouth piece to stop a bit from pinching and pulling through the mouth. 
 
I am not at all familiar with english tack and I thank you for taking the time to share.  You are right about picking up knowledge as you can.

CrookedPostQH


The pics helped.  Its the bit I thought you were talking about, but the "keepers" are not.  I was confused in my assumption that you were calling foam/rubber disks placed at the edge of a mouth piece to stop a bit from pinching and pulling through the mouth. 

I am not at all familiar with english tack and I thank you for taking the time to share.  You are right about picking up knowledge as you can.

 
The disks are called bit gaurds, or something along those lines depending on who you are and where you live. 
I used to be western all the way til I had to take a hunt/dressage/jumping course in college.  I'm still learning about it all as I go.   (plus, I think fjords look the best in english tack)

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
- Life on the Mississippi

the cheeks could get caught on anything really?  I mean, stick or branches while out on a trail ride.  If your horse should rub its head upon something...like his buddy and catch up his buddy's rein or lead rope.  a horse could even catch his own equipment, for that matter. 
 
That was a great explainaition, btw! 

If Im not here, Im off driving my Ural Patrol!